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舊 2012-10-25, 22:16   #46
Mike
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作者: goldox 查看文章
Thanks Mike.

What is a "stone grind"? Can you kindly point me to some previous posts where "stone grind" was explained?

I just visited the holmenkol's catalogue. I made my way to their home page too. I then clicked English. It seems they don't put prices up on website.
Stone grinding is the process of flattening, polishing, structuring and cleaning a ski base in order to make skis glide faster. The use of stone grinding techniques will result in a flat base with a fresh, open p-tex base surface for good wax absorption, and a permanently structured base suited to the snow conditions.

Stone grinding can get very technical, to the point where the diamond chips in the machine can be programmed to apply various patterns to the ski base. In the world of competitive ski racing, ski engineers experiment with different patterns to find the best pattern for snow conditions and type of races.





Also refer to the following related threads:
http://www.hkssa.net/showthread.php?t=44918
http://www.hkssa.net/showthread.php?t=60608

The link for the Holmenkol catalogue is in English. There is no price in Holmenkol catalogue.

此篇文章於 2012-10-26 11:36 被 Mike 編輯。. 原因: Add video & correct typo
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舊 2012-10-25, 22:42   #47
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作者: goldox 查看文章
In your newly posted video above I think the guy showed some files and stones. One of the stones had coloured circular spots on it like those in the picture here. Is the stone element within the coloured circular spots or outside the spots?
There are different brands/makes of diamond stones. The type shown in your posting above are made by DMT, I believe the diamond filings are embedded in the metal part.
Diamond stones come in different gradings, from coarse to fine. The colour coding identifies each different grading.

http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/dm...ening-faq.aspx

此篇文章於 2012-10-26 09:32 被 Mike 編輯。. 原因: typo
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舊 2012-12-01, 18:25   #48
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Ever wonder what is the edge bevel of your skis? Is it 2 or 3 degrees?

There are a number of tools for measuring the base/side bevel angles in the market, but they are expensive - from US$300 to US$1000.

There are couple of ways to measure the edge bevel yourself without using one of those expensive pro tools:
Method #1 - A simple way to measure base edge bevel is with a straightedge or true bar laid across a ski at or near the waist where the ski is 60mm wide. Hold the bar so it's sitting flush atop the steel base edge on one side...this should cause the other end to lift up slightly on the other side of the ski. This raised height (in millimeters) equates to the degree of base bevel you have.

Method #2 - If you're not using a bevel guide to set base edge bevels, use a feeler gauge to check the gap between your base edge and a true bar laid flat across the base. Here is the conversion chart:
Degree of Bevel Reading on Gauge
1/2° = .0015"
1° = .003"
1 1/2° = .004"
2° = .005"
2 1/2° = .006"
3° = .007"

Method #3 - A very handy way to see if you have a match to your edge guide is to run a marker pen along the edge, leaving a thin ink film. By running your edge guide over the ink with a fine stone (to minimize edge material removal), the removal of all the ink will indicate a match or near match, while ink removal on one side of the edge or the other will indicate there isn’t a match and you’ll be able to determine if the guide is too steep or shallow relative to the edge.

此篇文章於 2012-12-02 10:58 被 Mike 編輯。. 原因: typo
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舊 2012-12-05, 07:18   #49
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CSCF ski tuning videos

The Canadian Ski Coach Federation (CSCF) has published an 8 step video series on tuning skis. The principles apply for tuning at all performance levels, not just racing.

Here are the first 2:




此篇文章於 2012-12-05 08:10 被 Mike 編輯。.
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舊 2012-12-05, 08:11   #50
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CSCF ski tuning videos

Here below the next 2 CSCF videos:



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舊 2012-12-05, 08:11   #51
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CSCF ski tuning videos



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舊 2012-12-05, 08:12   #52
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CSCF ski tuning videos

And the last 2 CSCF ski tuning videos:





Just to add a note on the CSCF videos on ski tuning:
Most race tuners use a 3 or even 4 file progression (panzer, bastard medium cut, fine cut) on the side edge. Follow by similar diamond stone progression.
When setting the base edge, delicacy is what needed (best done with a fine file, light pressure, and at the most 3 passes, lapped progressively).

此篇文章於 2012-12-05 09:53 被 Mike 編輯。.
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舊 2013-02-10, 11:49   #53
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Diamond stones

Proper technique for using diamond files - unlike panzar files which are cutting aggressively, diamond files are 'micro-cutting' or polishing and direction of use is not really an issue. Overlap your strokes, use moderate but certain pressure, keep them lubed and learn to feel and hear for consistent cutting/polishing before moving to the next finer diamond. Some areas of an edge will require more work than others.
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舊 2013-02-13, 01:20   #54
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作者: Mike 查看文章
Snowrider, this tool is not meant for you to carry. You do not require to polish your ski edges with the ceramic stone after every run nor everyday, as a ceramic stone finish will make the sharpness of your edges last longer.

For taking to the slope, I have a handy small edge guide with a diamond stone for the job.
Mike, which brand do you use for the handy small edge guide with the diamond stone?
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舊 2013-02-13, 07:47   #55
Mike
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作者: powderhound 查看文章
Mike, which brand do you use for the handy small edge guide with the diamond stone?
For pocket edge guide with diamond file - Holmenkol Edge Trick Pro
Click the image to open in full size.

此篇文章於 2013-02-13 09:15 被 Mike 編輯。.
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舊 2013-02-14, 01:25   #56
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Snowrider,
Diamond stones and ceramic stones are used for two purposes:
1st, to take the burrs off the edges after a day of skiing (especially if you've skied on ice or rocks!) before you start filing.
2nd, to take the fine burrs of the edges after you have completed your filing. A diamond or ceramic stone will polish up the edges and harden them against future burring.

Some diamond stones can be used with a lubricant (water or "polishing solution"), others should not. All ceramic stones can.

There are 2 schools of thought. One argues that lubricating diamond stones will yield superior results (smoother sharper edge), and will also lengthen the life of a diamond stone by preventing it from clogging up with debris. Some opined that the waste and filings will get into the base if lubricant is used.

As for lubricant, 50/50 mix of de-natured alcohol/de-ionised water is suggested. Alternative is soapy water which is convenient.

So, I suppose, it is best to use your own judgement whether lubricant should be used or not.
1st, to take the burrs off the edges after a day of skiing (especially if you've skied on ice or rocks!) before you start filing.
Mike, Diamond stones of what coarseness should I use for 1. nicks from hitting rocks and 2. burrs from skiing on ice respectively?
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舊 2013-02-15, 11:31   #57
Mike
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作者: powderhound 查看文章
1st, to take the burrs off the edges after a day of skiing (especially if you've skied on ice or rocks!) before you start filing.
Mike, Diamond stones of what coarseness should I use for 1. nicks from hitting rocks and 2. burrs from skiing on ice respectively?
Depends on how bad is the nick. Use whatever gradings of diamond stones it takes. If in doubt, take it to a ski technician.

For burr, progression of stones.

此篇文章於 2013-02-16 12:07 被 Mike 編輯。.
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舊 2013-10-20, 13:17   #58
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作者: snowrider 查看文章
I wipe dry my skis after skiing so that they won't get rusted. If they are rusty, the edges become round shape, which requires a lot of filing to get back to good condition - and hence that the life span of the edges become shorter.
Mackay & Snowrider, I just bought a new high quality (unfortunately expensive as well) file for those rusty round edges (for work on my friends' skis). The file is by Tools4boards, Canadian, very very sharp.
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舊 2013-10-21, 02:58   #59
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Q. How often do you need to use a file on the edges?
A. When you can't get it sharp with a stone, use the file. It is better to do a "touch-up" light sharpening with a stone more often than wait until it really needs it.
The frequency of sharpening depends on the conditions you ski. If you are on ice, it's a touch up every day or two. Hard granular man-made snow every three or four days. Dirty snow (like in early season/spring conditions) also causes dulling.
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舊 2014-02-20, 10:42   #60
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Here below is an interview with a Race Team ski technician (article in Ski Magazine,com):

Leo Mussi knows ski tech. The 45-year-old is Fischer Sports’ go-to tuner for its alpine ski team. Based in San Candido, Italy, he took some time leading up to the Olympics to chat about what makes skis fast.

Techs have to always be very organized. We receive our new equipment and supplies in the spring and prep them all summer. Once we get closer to fall we begin to select equipment and are focused on certain skis. We have to always think and work ahead, so we have gear ready for every condition.

Are you sponsored by certain wax brands, and therefore have to use them, or do you have freedom to pick and choose from any brand you like? What do you prefer?
I´m not sponsored by a wax brand. I choose what I want, but I have my preferred wax brand. Because of my style, I choose Holmenkol for base preparation and Swix for race wax. I guess every technician has his preferences. Wax brands are very close in performance and all are good. There’s not much of a difference between them.

How have fluorinated waxes changed the tuning game? And when did they appear on the scene?
Fluorinated waxes are good in very wet or humid conditions. In all other conditions, it’s better to stay away from them. Fluorinated overlay helps you gain speed at the start.

Are high-fluoros worth the money for, say, a masters racer who wants to go fast? Are there times or conditions when using them is wasteful and ineffective?
In my opinion, those waxes are usually a waste of money, and people tend to use them in the wrong conditions. Conditions are limited for it to work correctly. Many times a normal base wax or low flour is faster.

There are so many different brands and types of ski wax on the market. What should all wax have or not have, and how do people choose what's best for them?
Brands are very similar in performance, but they are all different to work with. It’s up to the individual. Some of them feel denser when you wax with them, which is what I like. Choose a brand with a small assortment, but wide range of temperatures. The more temperature options you have, the more likely you are to fail.

Are there any new wax technologies that are making an impact? Or tuning technologies?
There are some new wax products with nano technologies coming in the near future. I haven’t figured out what their advantages will be. Some of the new liquid-based overlay products are doing well. They are very simple to apply on skis and that´s why they work well.

What are the toughest conditions to wax for? And how do you cope with it?
Extreme warm and extreme cold conditions are the toughest to wax. In warm conditions I go with fluorinated waxes and during the colder conditions I stay away from them.

What's the most important aspect of tuning, other than waxing, for making skis fast?
It's how the work gets done on the edges, how much they are skied in before, and how often they get waxed during the training period. All this together adds up to make the ski faster.

From a tuning and waxing standpoint, what do you do on the pro level that recreational skiers could apply?
Make sure you clean your skis after you use them (brushing), wax them and then tune the edges a few times. Especially when the skis are new, they need to be filed a few times. Some skis will start to get smother after that. Once they have been on the snow about 10 times, they should be ready to use in a race. Keep it simple with race wax—don´t make it complicated. Brushing well after scraping is more important than a good wax. Also having a clean edge is important. A clean edge means having the right angle, you don´t need to have too sharp of edges.

You must have tradecraft tricks and secrets that you want to keep secret. How do you do that when you're working in a crowded wax room with other technicians nearby?
The main work is already done when I show up for the races. I do all the secret things at home in my own ski room. I´m just changing wax, but we all use the same waxes, so there’s no secrets about that.

Are some pairs of skis just inherently faster than other skis of the same exact design? If so, what could explain that?
Skis are made of wood and wood is always alive. So that’s why some skis are better or faster than others. There’s no real explanation—we can´t look inside to figure out why. It is kind of a mystery, but that’s what makes this work so exiting.
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